Wife Constantly Toys with Me

CowboyCowboy Climbing out of a really deep hole (not that kind, though!)Posts: 1,106Silver Member

I've been into the MAP for about five months or so now, and I've made good progress with many of our problems, but not much on the sex front.  The last four or five weeks or so (or maybe longer), the wife has been displaying some really odd behaviors when romance might be in the air.  I am not sure what to make of them, or how to handle them.  Thus far, I have just been telling myself "Keep MAP-ping, this shit will eventually stop one way or another," but I am curious if anyone else can explain what is going on.

The first odd habit is that the last couple of weeks she has acted like she is torn between giving in to physical contact and/or sex and being stand-off-ish.  She starts to act like she wants to cuddle, snuggle, or boink, and then backs off.  I have actually seen her appear to struggle with it.  It looks like a girl in high school who does is not ready to go to the next base or give up her virginity or sneak around behind her boyfriend's back, but physically really, really wants to.  The only trouble is...we're already married, and there really is no downside to giving in.  Her mom isn't going to walk in on us or something.  What the heck?  I am now showing some small amounts of muscle definition (though that stupid pizza gut makes me look like I'm wearing an inner tube for a little girl), so there may be some cracks in her lack of attraction.

Last night, for example, we sat down to watch the last hour of a movie.  I put my arm around her.  For fun, I slowly readjusted till my hand was cupping her breast.  (For those that wonder how this worked, I have long arms, and she has really small boobs.)  She start readjusting herself, but it followed a weird pattern.  She would first move so that my hand was off her breast.  Then, a couple of minutes later, she would move so it was on her breast again.  Finally, a minute or two after that she would shift again so she was snuggled against me closer, but my hand was off her breast.  I would usually squirm a little a minute later so I was back on her bosom, and a few minutes later we would repeat the cycle.  However, if I didn't put my hand back on there, she would shuffle again so it was for a couple of minutes.  This went on perhaps for forty-five minutes last night.  I wondered what the hell she was doing.  After a while, her face appeared as if she was agonizing over what to do.  By the end of the hour, she was biting her lip, chewing her nails, and fidgiting with her hands, acting like she was nervous.  I didn't bother to initiate, as I was kind of weirdly fascinated by what she was doing, and wanted to see how it ended.  I was also irritated at her earlier snippy behavior (as you will see).

The second odd behavior is that she'll tease me all day with words and actions that suggest sex, but then get into a really foul mood and angrily reject me about an hour before the kids go to bed.  This has actually been going on for at least a couple of months.  She'll say and do things that indicate sex is on her mind, but then about 7:30 or 8 o'clock, she'll mysteriously start acting weird and get angry for no reason.

Yesterday was a good example of this one, too.  I took a bunch of boy scouts camping this weekend, and came back grizzled, stubbly, and foul-smelling.  This is normally a big alpha score for me, probably for the manly activities out in the wilderness and the leadership of the troop.  All afternoon, she was flirty and friendly.  I played it cool but mildly interested.  She put on a tank top to come watch me work out in the yard, which she hasn't done in several years.  She let me grab her and pull her into my lap, something else I haven't been able to pull off in a few years.  She even hinted she wanted me to work with some of my heavy machinery and tools.  At 7:45, though, the mood swing came in, and she bitched about everything.  She complained that I had left out some school books she had asked me to get out for her.  This was silly, as she had asked me to get them out; why would I put them away?  I finally snapped at her, and her bitchy mood disappeared as quickly as it blew in.  However, it killed the mood for me for sure.

The third thing is also weird.  When she agrees to have sex, or sometimes even suggests it herself, she will engage in a series of very small delays in getting to the bedroom.  This has happened several times in the last few months.  This one pisses me off as it ensures we will be really tired by the time we finally do it, and it reeks of trying to control the situation or irritate me for no reason.

Last week, for example, she agreed to have sex, but first she wanted to finish watching some dance routine on TV.  Then, she looked up the cast of some movie we saw years ago, and read aloud the personal trivia about them.  After that, she mentioned some song she had heard at a concert a few weeks ago, and wanted to play it for me from the Internet to see if I recognized it.  I did not, but she kept playing the song.  About two minutes in, I got impatient, figured this was a fitness test, stopped the music and said "Let's go upstairs."  I figured this would score me some alpha points, but instead she just said "I guess I CAN'T listen to the end of that song," as she went upstairs to the bedroom.

Any thoughts on why she does these things?  Is there anything I should be concerned about, or just keep on MAP-ping?

 

Riding up and down Broadway
on my old stud Leroy
And the girls say
Save a horse, ride a cowboy.
Everybody says
Save a horse, Ride a cowboy!
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Comments

  • kaldakalda USAPosts: 107Silver Member
    edited August 2013
    First is her hamster doing combat with her attraction to you.

    Second and third are fitness tests. Be light, energetic, and confident. She puts on music, hold your hands out until she takes them and dance with her for a minute. Or tell her "of course I know this song, this was our wedding dance!" Get ridiculous and grin as you try to convince her, then smack your forward and say "sorry, first wife, you two look so much alike" (don't do this if you were actually married before).

    She's unconsciously seeing if you are strong enough to be the captain. Show her you are. When she puts up this stupid obstacles find ways to Mae them work for you instead of getting impatient or pissy.
    SignorePillolaRossa
  • Mr_BrownMr_Brown east coastPosts: 2,640Silver Member
    I'm not really sure how much longer you should put up with this behavior but it's working.

    As of right now at my house there is no "agreeing" to have sex. If she's in another room I take her by the hand and lead her into the bedroom. Or if she's in bed I take off her pants. Your giving the hamster too much time to rationalize.

    I had tried both of these methods in the past and was unsuccessful... Then all of a sudden it started working. Implement these methods when she's ovulating. Then increase frequency when you think you'll get away with it... It's a crazy snowball effect, and the more successful you are the more confidence you'll have, and her lizard brain will take over.
    Been an uphill battle, both ways, in three feet of snow, with newspapers for shoes, but I'm a better man for it!
    HyperPiperNeverSleptOnTheCouchSignorePillolaRossaPaleoDad
  • ShotcallerShotcaller Posts: 109Member
    What happens when you physically throw her on the bed, start taking her clothes off, and have your way with her?

    Try it...
    Mr_BrownHyperPiperSignorePillolaRossa
  • pocketacespocketaces MassachusettsPosts: 997Silver Member
    edited August 2013
    Try this one out: "Dammit woman, i put my hand on ypur boob. Stop squirming."

    You on the couch sound like the dance of the betas. Be direct, not sneaky.

    I mean I like sneaky, but this isnt a place for it. You are married, you can touch her boobs. Do it.
  • MaverickMaverick Posts: 1,308Gold Men

    @HyperPiper I only do the third thing. I will agree to sex or make it known I want sex early in the day, but by the time later comes I'm not motivated to stop what I'm doing to go to bed. However for me I really think it's because once my H gets the yes, the flirting stops. So for me what would work is if we continue the flirty texts or sexy banter even after I agree. It will keep me in the "mood" instead of getting caught up in chores or something else.


    @LSomething  I get announcements early in the day that we are having sex...  Since you're the first FO I've seen mention it, what are you feeling when you announce this? Is it responsive or spontaneous.  Why the wait?  I usually get a string of requests leading up to sex, but she will actually follow through.  Also, does you husband initiate sex, or do you?
  • hoping4betterhoping4better Posts: 1,223Member
    edited August 2013

     I am curious if anyone else can explain what is going on.

    The first odd habit is that the last couple of weeks she has acted like she is torn between giving in to physical contact and/or sex and being stand-off-ish.  She starts to act like she wants to cuddle, snuggle, or boink, and then backs off.  I have actually seen her appear to struggle with it.  It looks like a girl in high school who does is not ready to go to the next base or give up her virginity or sneak around behind her boyfriend's back, but physically really, really wants to.  The only trouble is...we're already married, and there really is no downside to giving in.  Her mom isn't going to walk in on us or something.  What the heck?  I am now showing some small amounts of muscle definition (though that stupid pizza gut makes me look like I'm wearing an inner tube for a little girl), so there may be some cracks in her lack of attraction.

    Last night, for example, we sat down to watch the last hour of a movie.  I put my arm around her.  For fun, I slowly readjusted till my hand was cupping her breast.  (For those that wonder how this worked, I have long arms, and she has really small boobs.)  She start readjusting herself, but it followed a weird pattern.  She would first move so that my hand was off her breast.  Then, a couple of minutes later, she would move so it was on her breast again.  Finally, a minute or two after that she would shift again so she was snuggled against me closer, but my hand was off her breast.  I would usually squirm a little a minute later so I was back on her bosom, and a few minutes later we would repeat the cycle.  However, if I didn't put my hand back on there, she would shuffle again so it was for a couple of minutes.  This went on perhaps for forty-five minutes last night.  I wondered what the hell she was doing.  After a while, her face appeared as if she was agonizing over what to do.  By the end of the hour, she was biting her lip, chewing her nails, and fidgiting with her hands, acting like she was nervous.  I didn't bother to initiate, as I was kind of weirdly fascinated by what she was doing, and wanted to see how it ended.  I was also irritated at her earlier snippy behavior (as you will see).

    45 minutes!!! YOU DIDN"T INITIATE BECAUSE YOU WERE IRRITATED AT HER...  On you here.  The runway lights turn on it's your job to land the plane.


    The second odd behavior is that she'll tease me all day with words and actions that suggest sex, but then get into a really foul mood and angrily reject me about an hour before the kids go to bed.  This has actually been going on for at least a couple of months.  She'll say and do things that indicate sex is on her mind, but then about 7:30 or 8 o'clock, she'll mysteriously start acting weird and get angry for no reason.

    Straight up ST.  How is your frame, do you crumble or laugh at her and tease her?

    Yesterday was a good example of this one, too.  I took a bunch of boy scouts camping this weekend, and came back grizzled, stubbly, and foul-smelling.  This is normally a big alpha score for me, probably for the manly activities out in the wilderness and the leadership of the troop.  All afternoon, she was flirty and friendly.  I played it cool but mildly interested.  She put on a tank top to come watch me work out in the yard, which she hasn't done in several years.  She let me grab her  (you need to just grab her and not worry about what she is "letting" you do) and pull her into my lap, something else I haven't been able to pull off in a few years.  She even hinted she wanted me to work with some of my heavy machinery and tools.  At 7:45, though, the mood swing came in, and she bitched about everything.  She complained that I had left out some school books she had asked me to get out for her.  This was silly, as she had asked me to get them out; why would I put them away?  I finally snapped at her, and her bitchy mood disappeared as quickly as it blew in.  However, it killed the mood for me for sure.

    So you diffuse a shit test and then act pissy?  What are you trying to achieve here after all?

    The third thing is also weird.  When she agrees to have sex, or sometimes even suggests it herself, she will engage in a series of very small delays in getting to the bedroom.  This has happened several times in the last few months.  This one pisses me off as it ensures we will be really tired by the time we finally do it, and it reeks of trying to control the situation or irritate me for no reason.

    Yes this is LMR and it is up to you to push through and not wait on her.  Why aren't you?

    Last week, for example, she agreed to have sex, but first she wanted to finish watching some dance routine on TV.  Then, she looked up the cast of some movie we saw years ago, and read aloud the personal trivia about them.  After that, she mentioned some song she had heard at a concert a few weeks ago, and wanted to play it for me from the Internet to see if I recognized it.  I did not, but she kept playing the song.  About two minutes in, I got impatient, figured this was a fitness test, stopped the music and said "Let's go upstairs."  I figured this would score me some alpha points, but instead she just said "I guess I CAN'T listen to the end of that song," as she went upstairs to the bedroom.

    So she complied with you and went to the bedroom.  To do what?  Continue to talk about the song?  NO.  What did you do?


    Any thoughts on why she does these things?  Is there anything I should be concerned about, or just keep on MAP-ping?

     

    Really seems like you are too emotionally engaged and needy.  Your wife is giving you strong opportunities to lead and do something here, and you want her to ask pretty please?  MAP on.  Develop a frame and what you want from these interactions and then take it.
    wombatula[Deleted User]
  • MaverickMaverick Posts: 1,308Gold Men
    @LSomething  Interesting..  We've got the opposite problem.  I'll get the announcement, and when I'm pushing her into corners to play naughty, I'll get the "settle down".  Other times she's game and we won't make it to the evening.  I ask this because if I don't get verbal indication, I get no chance to escalate, it's "no" at first kiss.  It would be convenient if it was responsive... I've just got to figure out what buttons to push.
  • MaverickMaverick Posts: 1,308Gold Men

    The second odd behavior is that she'll tease me all day with words and actions that suggest sex, but then get into a really foul mood and angrily reject me about an hour before the kids go to bed.  This has actually been going on for at least a couple of months.  She'll say and do things that indicate sex is on her mind, but then about 7:30 or 8 o'clock, she'll mysteriously start acting weird and get angry for no reason.

    Yesterday was a good example of this one, too.  I took a bunch of boy scouts camping this weekend, and came back grizzled, stubbly, and foul-smelling.  This is normally a big alpha score for me, probably for the manly activities out in the wilderness and the leadership of the troop.  All afternoon, she was flirty and friendly.  I played it cool but mildly interested.  She put on a tank top to come watch me work out in the yard, which she hasn't done in several years.  She let me grab her and pull her into my lap, something else I haven't been able to pull off in a few years.  She even hinted she wanted me to work with some of my heavy machinery and tools.  At 7:45, though, the mood swing came in, and she bitched about everything.  She complained that I had left out some school books she had asked me to get out for her.  This was silly, as she had asked me to get them out; why would I put them away?  I finally snapped at her, and her bitchy mood disappeared as quickly as it blew in.  However, it killed the mood for me for sure.

    I get this one too.  A few weeks ago, wife was flirty all day, drive-bys, grinding on me and walking away.  As soon as kids are to bed, I escalate and get shot down hard.  I grew angry and said she was just fucking with me.  She actually started crying.  I would have told you up to a few weeks ago, that your wife is gaming you for sure.  Now I'm not certain, my wife it NOT a crier.
  • DaveBowmanDaveBowman Posts: 5,823Member
    Maverick said:

    The second odd behavior is that she'll tease me all day with words and actions that suggest sex, but then get into a really foul mood and angrily reject me about an hour before the kids go to bed.  This has actually been going on for at least a couple of months.  She'll say and do things that indicate sex is on her mind, but then about 7:30 or 8 o'clock, she'll mysteriously start acting weird and get angry for no reason.

    Yesterday was a good example of this one, too.  I took a bunch of boy scouts camping this weekend, and came back grizzled, stubbly, and foul-smelling.  This is normally a big alpha score for me, probably for the manly activities out in the wilderness and the leadership of the troop.  All afternoon, she was flirty and friendly.  I played it cool but mildly interested.  She put on a tank top to come watch me work out in the yard, which she hasn't done in several years.  She let me grab her and pull her into my lap, something else I haven't been able to pull off in a few years.  She even hinted she wanted me to work with some of my heavy machinery and tools.  At 7:45, though, the mood swing came in, and she bitched about everything.  She complained that I had left out some school books she had asked me to get out for her.  This was silly, as she had asked me to get them out; why would I put them away?  I finally snapped at her, and her bitchy mood disappeared as quickly as it blew in.  However, it killed the mood for me for sure.

    I get this one too.  A few weeks ago, wife was flirty all day, drive-bys, grinding on me and walking away.  As soon as kids are to bed, I escalate and get shot down hard.  I grew angry and said she was just fucking with me.  She actually started crying.  I would have told you up to a few weeks ago, that your wife is gaming you for sure.  Now I'm not certain, my wife it NOT a crier.
    Do not respond negatively to this. There are two options (verily I paraphrase the holy of holies TWOK): she is unable to respond, she is unwilling to respond.

    1. if she is unable to respond, her hamster got the better of her. She can't respond, because she lost control of her own justification engine (hamster) and it shut down her responsive desire. Getting angry at this is going to fuel her hamster, and it's like getting mad at the engine when they tranny's shot.

    2. if she is unwilling to respond, she's attempting to regain control over your relationship and your sex life... responding badly is a DLV and will show her that she can still make you dance to her tune. 

    Maverick[Deleted User][Deleted User]
  • SignorePillolaRossaSignorePillolaRossa mid atlantic usaPosts: 2,114Silver Member
    edited August 2013
    the wrath of khan ... yeah, it was pretty damn awesome ... lots of good lessons in there ... my fav (on the idea of thinking in a way that your opponent is not familiar with) ... 

    "Zee minus ten thousand metres. Stand by photon torpedoes."

    Sr. PR

    ============
    sapere aude
    ============
  • CowboyCowboy Climbing out of a really deep hole (not that kind, though!)Posts: 1,106Silver Member

    We're in this kind of limbo stage where she now acts and talks like she is interested in sex and physical contact...but the action category is still moving at a snail's pace. She gives me very contradictory signals.  I rarely get a soft no at all; it's either a lame-ass "yes, but I actually don't want to" (which is bullshit, I know), followed by getting some, or a really hard no. 

    Let me add a few details

    ===================

    Whenever she says she wants to have sex, she will eventually that day.  The third item (delaying sex for silly fluff) is just that:  a delay.  We eventually will make it to the bedroom.

    ===================

    On the other hand, if she just hints, or acts interested, or anything other than actually says the words...that's a different story.  And, if she decides an hour before the kids go to bed to act like a completely crazed bitch after being all over me all day -- scenario #2 -- there is no way we will have sex.  I have never been able to succeed in getting laid after one of her complete mood swings to Bitchland.  Not even once.  It's always a "hard no."

    Another reason why I didn't directly initiate the other night, and just sat there sort-of feeling her up, was that I was trying a different tactic.  After her earlier blow-up, I figured that any initiation from my usual ways would utterly fail.  So, I tried to ease into things slowly, but I really didn't know what to make of her behavior.  I was completely baffled.

    ===================

    For whatever reason, the best response to one of her fitness tests is to get mad and tell her to get off my back.  Anything else just generates silly, ridiculous arguments from her.  Why?  I don't know.  So, when I say I "got mad," that usually means (I think) I passed the test.

     

    Riding up and down Broadway
    on my old stud Leroy
    And the girls say
    Save a horse, ride a cowboy.
    Everybody says
    Save a horse, Ride a cowboy!
    AngelineHyperPiper
  • redheaded_womanredheaded_woman USAPosts: 3,622Silver Member
    edited August 2013
    @WannaBeACowboy from that last post:
    "Yes, but I don't actually want to."

    1. Why are u asking? Or, more specifically, what are u asking to get this answer? Cause if u r asking "Do u wanna have sex?" - stop.
    2. I'm pissed on your behalf! That's just a rude response. I found my way to the forum bc Im the high drive partner, so I guess I want to smack some of your wives around a little!
    3. Any clue what causes the swing into Bitchland? Honest to God, sometimes my trips there are the simplest things like if he closes the pantry door when I wasn't finished yet. My H tends to make me feel like this: "Well, she's just leaving the pantry door open for no good reason even though she's still standing in the kitchen working on stuff for tomorrow. Since she can't be bothered to shut it, I guess I'll have to do it." Irrational?? Completely! But it pisses me off to no end bc it makes me feel like he thinks I'm incompetent. I wasn't done in there yet! I'd shut it when I got done!

    Hope that shed some female hamster light for you!

  • themacnutthemacnut Philadelphia, PAPosts: 299Silver Member
    Regarding the swing into Bitchland occurences; do you follow her cycle? If not, you should be. If you are, is she more likely to go to Bitchland when she's PMS'ing? Many women tend to get crankier than usual during that time of the month after all.


    Husband of over a decade, stepfather of 3, creator of the superhero webcomic The Vanguard.
  • DaveBowmanDaveBowman Posts: 5,823Member
    Respond, don't react.

    See what happens when you laugh at her and walk away to do something else fun.

    Don't play her game. You're the captain, make it your game.

  • MaverickMaverick Posts: 1,308Gold Men
    edited August 2013
    ===================

    On the other hand, if she just hints, or acts interested, or anything other than actually says the words...that's a different story.  And, if she decides an hour before the kids go to bed to act like a completely crazed bitch after being all over me all day -- scenario #2 -- there is no way we will have sex.  I have never been able to succeed in getting laid after one of her complete mood swings to Bitchland.  Not even once.  It's always a "hard no."

    Damn, we should compare notes.  I had a nice roll going and she turned bitch on me an hour before I put the kiddies to bed last night.  It's day 8th of my wife's cycle.  I insisted this morning to a good-by 10 second kiss, but it was like pulling teeth.  The anticipation of her golden words"You might get lucky" is driving me ape-shit. 

    The only thing that might work is removing yourself completely from her company after you put kiddies to bed.  I've gotten nowhere by pushing things after she's declared she's tired/feeling unwell/non in the mood, etc.
  • Im_a_ManIm_a_Man CanadaPosts: 851Silver Member
    @maverick

    "It's day 8th of my wife's cycle.  I insisted this morning to a good-by 10 second kiss, but it was like pulling teeth." 

    Say this: Funny story! This morning i went to kiss my beautiful wife and got kissed by her evil twin. You owe me a kiss!

    "The anticipation of her golden words"You might get lucky" is driving me ape-shit." This is a red flag and she is asserting her frame as her being in control. These are not golden words. I would reply...."If you're lucky, I may take you tonight for my own sexual gratification. Whether i take you or not is my choice but I'll still let you sleep in my bed <big grin>. Now be a good girl and give me a kiss." 

    "I've gotten nowhere by pushing things after she's declared she's tired/feeling unwell/non in the mood, etc." Pick your battles....besides you don't want her when she's off her game.
    themacnutMaverick
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