Does single Game have a place in married Game?

Ben

I mean that question in both the general sense and also in my personal situation.

Speaking generally:  Are there advantages to learning the dating version of Game if you're already in a long-term relationship?  Or would that just be reinventing the wheel, since Athol has already done the heavy lifting of deconstructing it and applying it to marriage?  I would tend to think that it could increase the preselection effect and improve confidence to know that you have options if it does come to the ultimatum stage.  On the other hand, we already have a thread about the dangers of learning these new superpowers; I imagine that temptation can only be more dangerous if you know exactly how to apply them to women you're not married to.

In my own personal situation:

I've told my story at some length in the Phase 4 thread and also on my own blog.  Long story short, I want kids, she doesn't, we're trying to find a middle ground, if there is one.  The idea of pregnancy gives her the heeby-jeebies (not without reason; she has medical problems that would make it extra difficult but not impossible for her); she's more open to the idea of adoption.  It's something she's apparently always considered doing, just not in the sort of serious way that involves timetables but in a vague "yeah, I could see myself doing that" way.  That wouldn't be my first choice, but it's a compromise I might consider if it gets me the rest of what I want (which is to say, a timetable and a serious "this is something that is going to be part of our future together" commitment).  We're going to start counseling soon.  Might be a waste of time, but what the heck, it's our time to waste.

I'm trying to educate and prepare myself for all possible futures: bio-kids with her, adoption with her, going back on the dating scene and trying to find a partner for bio-kids down the line.

A big part of that last option, if that's what it comes to, would be learning dating Game so that I can approach looking for a partner in a much more systematic and effective way than I did the last time around.  Am I jumping the gun by starting to look into that now, or is it something that should probably wait until I have a better idea of which way things are going?

On the one hand, there's a difference between knowing, "Well, if it all goes south, here are the books I'd read to get my dating Game right" and having the confidence of KNOWING that I have the skills I'd need to succeed at it.  I'd sort of like to have that confidence, even if it turns out I never need those skills.

On the other hand, since running the MAP I already pull a fair bit more female attention than I did before.  When the cute clerk flirts with me at the grocery store, I sort of prefer thinking, "Yeah, if I were single and working on my Game I could probably have hit that," to knowing, "Man, all I had to do was say X and I could have hit that."  That's a lot of temptation to deal with, even for a fine morally upstanding pillar of manhood such as myself.  (-:

Bah.  Now I'm just talking in circles.  (-:  What do you think?  Am I putting the cart before the horse?

Wendy

um, yeah, I have no idea about the single game bit.  Personally, I wouldn't want my husband learning single game, because as you say, it is too much temptation.  There was a thread here somewhere about this husband who pulled a ton of female attention at some party and he even said how it was a lot of temptation.  So I don't know the first thing about how you tip toe that line. 

Good luck with everything Ben.  It sounds like you feel pulled in different directions and I can imagine that's a tough place to be.  You say, "I'm trying to educate and prepare myself for all possible futures:"  I do think THAT is putting the cart before the horse.  How can one prepare oneself "for all possible futures?"  that would be quite a feat!

Joskin_Nodd

@Ben: "Speaking generally:  Are there advantages to learning the dating version of Game if you're already in a long-term relationship?"

Good lord, yes. Check out David Deangelo (everything), but Man Transformation, Cocky Comedy, Deep Inner Game get special mentions. Also, his Interviews with Dating Gurus series. 

Don't have to use anything you don't want, but there's a great deal of basis. Even his first Double Your Dating Seminar is really half about why game works, including the evolutionary basis, with lots of insights and "aha!" moments. The more I read here, the more I want to revisit that stuff for a refresher. 

With nothing but that stuff to go on, it's hard to find the right balance between alpha and beta, and it became exhausting. But there were a lot of insights. I mean, a ton. With MMSL to modulate the learning, I think I'm going to start revisiting some of that material, over time. 

Your thinking of it in terms of dating game, and having the tools if you might need them. But the insights from the PUAs are dynamite, and half of it you can use as part of marriage game. Basically, take 50% of the PUA stuff, add some beta, and your done. There is great stuff there. 

Just pick one up. Maybe Double Your Dating. David Deangelo is a treasure trove of insights. So much of it is background and inner game stuff, rather than technique, that you'll be blown away. Interviews with Dating Gurus is great, and often starts with what sad sacks these guys were until they alpha'd it up (and there were a couple who had previous been married—one guy had been wealthy, beta with the wife, and miserable and sexless, and now was broke (because of the economy), divorced, and dating incredibly hot women every week. All because of a change in attitude. 

I gotta get back to some of that stuff. I'm selling myself!

AverageMarriedGuy

since running the MAP I already pull a fair bit more female attention than I did before.  When the cute clerk flirts with me at the grocery store, I sort of prefer thinking, "Yeah, if I were single and working on my Game I could probably have hit that," to knowing, "Man, all I had to do was say X and I could have hit that."  That's a lot of temptation to deal with, even for a fine morally upstanding pillar of manhood such as myself.  (-:

I feel the same thing, but have been learning single game in conjunction with married game. I choose not to implement much of the single game, but like you it's empowering to know I can. Example this morning, had a vet appointment with new puppy (talk about making pick-up and conversation easy!), v. cute single receptionist is all over us, we talk about dog running, enjoying local parks, etc. Would have been so easy to escalate into asking her out if I wasn't married, but old me never would have recognized the signs or would not have been confident to initiate. I think learning game (married or single) is as much about confidence, opening up your eyes to the possibilities and empowering yourself.

Ben

@AverageMarriedGuy:

Sometimes I think we need a thread just to tell stories like that to each other.  When stuff like that happens, it's such a fun ego boost that it feels like you've got to tell SOMEBODY, but "Hey honey, guess who I could've slept with today!" tends to be a little too direct to get the desired preselection effect.  (-:

@Wendy:

Well, I've had my zombie survival plan in place for years, so....

(-:

RedPillNewb

I usually tell the story and ask my wife "Do you think she was flirting?  I'm not as good at spotting that as you are."

pocketaces

A few points:

1. Reading books without practice doesn't help much.
2. Could you withstand temptation?

I'm pretty sure that the only way I stay on the straight and narrow is to avoid temptation. Personally, I have a pickup persona (I'm not and haven't been a pua) and if I'm not wearing that mask I'm not getting much attention. Personally I see pursuing mmsl as making me integrate many of those behaviors into my everyday self. Luckily I have been generally caught off guard when I have gotten unsolicited attention so I haven't had to make a decision to not go for a number close. It's all I know how to do.

I guess that's a long way of saying temptation will find you as you proceed with the map. So you will eventually find out what levels of temptation you can withstand.

If you find a way to resist let me know.

Danceny

I usually tell the story and ask my wife "Do you think she was flirting?  I'm not as good at spotting that as you are."

Excellent.  I've been wondering how I might subtly demonstrate pre-selection, given that the wife is never present when it happens.  Any other ideas?

pocketaces

@danceny

Easy. Mention that the chick was undesirable in some way and act slightly indignant about the whole thing.

sf64

I have been thinking about this question.

I am not sure that "single game" is really any different that "relationship game."  It is just a matter of degree.  If you accept the fundamental premise of Game that alpha behavior (or demonstrations of higher value or what ever way you want to label it) is what drives female sexual attraction, then why wouldn't you use it in your relationship or marriage?  

The truth is that once you understand the link between alpha and female attraction, the more you up your alpha, the more attention you are going to get from women.  Get in shape, start to dress better, stand up straight and have an alpha attitude, you are going to get more female attention... and that includes your wife or girlfriend.  

The question is what do you do with it?  Do you deliberately go and seek out opportunities to have women flirt with you in front of your wife?  Do you deliberately escalate with someone other than your girlfriend?  Or do you unleash your new found superpowers on your significant other?

Yes, temptation will be there.  And having taken the Red Pill, you will be much better at seeing the signs.  For me, part of being Alpha is living up to the promises and commitments you make.  (Not saying you have to do this if the other person has no intention of living up to their promises and commitments)

What I really like and admire about what Athol has done... is to find a way to bring the Alpha and the beta together in a way that can make long-term relationships work and be significantly more immune to one partner leaving or straying.

Athol_Kay

If you want to run the Mystery Method, it's basically "lead with Alpha / Instigate, follow up with some Beta / Isolate, and then follow up with seduction / Escalate.

Personally I think all you need to do is great in great shape, wear good clothes, have a job/money, be a functioning adult, be cocky and funny and not act like a supplicanting Beta and the women will seek you out.

Single game and Married game aren't wildly different. Big overlap in skills. 

Ben

I guess more what I'm asking is, the single Game stuff that I've read is all very interesting, but the stated goal of "sleep with as many women as possible as fast as possible" just isn't me.  My goal, if I do wind up back in the dating market, would be finding another LTR worth investing time and effort into, one with a good healthy sex life and the possibility of children down the road.  If I happened to get some casual sex along the way to that I certainly wouldn't complain, but it would be secondary to the main goal.  So is there someplace to look for advice on that, or am I stuck following PUA stuff on the one hand and MMSL on the other hand and trying to find the middle ground myself?

Tanooki

If instead of "sex with as many women as possible as fast as possible", you actually mean "ATTRACT as many women as possible as fast as possible," then try  http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/.  Rollo Tomassi has been married for 16 years but writes very candidly about Game.  His wisdom is focused primarily on male-female relationships from a Red-Pill perspective.  More about attraction and understanding the female psyche, with respect to men.

Other PUA sites are more concerned about getting laid as much as possible.  They provide some insight on female psyche, but it is mainly superficial with getting laid the primary goal.

sf64

@Ben -- I am single and in the dating market.  I agree with what @tanooki said.  For me, the goal is to be able to attract as many high-quality women as possible to sift through and figure out are any worth buidling a LTR with.

The Game skills I have acquired could be used for a long series of what the PUA's call pump and dumps.... but that is not me.  I am probably more at risk of becoming a serial monogamist.  

Offering sincere thank you and tip of the hat to @Athol_kay.  The concepts and skills found in the MMSL have given me hope that I can (1) attract a true high-quality woman; and (b) do the things that I need to do to keep the relationship over the long term vibrant and sexual.  

It is really about changing me, not the future "her."   But for the first time, I understand what I have to be in order to initially attract and then keep her attracted.

On a final note, I know that the principles of Game and MMSL won't ever work in every situation, but it is truly amazing how consistent the female response is to Alpha behavior mixed with a good dose of beta.... and the degree to which this is not conscious decision making.  Last night I gave a speech to an audience of about 200 grad students at one of the local universities.  Afterwards, I stayed to answer questions.  Four of the students were female.  All four of them was standing there asking me questions... while at the same time fidgeting with their hair.  In that moment, I was the AMOG... and it generated a preening response out of all four.

To quote from the Matrix, there is no spoon.

Athol_Kay

@sf64  You're welcome. :-)

joe_commenter

@Ben.    If you were to learn Judo, would you all the sudden decide you needed to go around picking fights and kicking asses?  Probably not. Judo is just a tool.   Game is just a tool.  Use it for good.  Use it to improve your marriage.

You should be trying to improve your game skills on your wife.  The better you get at gaming her the more attractive you will be to your wife.  But if the marriage is not save-able, those game skills will come in handy in the singles market.  

Personally, my wife has noticed my improved game and flirting skills (I use all my best material on her) and her reaction has been positive.  She has met some of my female co-workers and definitely picked up the vibe that I have with them.   I will never cheat on my wife.  But pre-selection is a very powerful concept, even in marriage.  Besides.  No woman wants to think that no other woman would want her man.  Every woman wants their man to be the prize that every other woman wants too.  So anything I do that makes me more attractive to other women also makes me more attractive in her eyes.